Albatross Alpine number 2003 restoration

[Tatra Man]

Aha! So did the two-seaters have the Albatross header tank mounted behind the seat? 2010 is a four-seater and has it mounted on the carb. flanges of the Albatross welded inlet manifold but, as usual, it has the vented screwed filler cap. 2003, in contrast, has the Rootes combined heat exchanger and header tank but, instead of being mounted on the engine's thermostat housing, Albatross moved it to two struts above the rear engine support cross frame which are made from identical steel stock.



It has a pressure cap but the thermostat would have been fitted by Rootes Marine between it and the thermostat housing on the front of the engine so I'm guessing it would have been fitted under whatever outlet Albatross fitted to the thermostat housing.

It sounds, then, that I should be OK in pressurising 2003's cooling system.

[scooter]

Don't think you will have any pressure problems with that header tank ! One thing to think about is does the cooling need a thermostat. A boat is not like a car, it never freewheels as the water has the same effect as a car going up hill in other words its always working and hence generating heat. Having owned my boat for 50 years from new. We skied with it every night on the Lake of Mentieth wore out two three bearing engines and two five bearing engines and never had a problem with it running too cold. If I knew how to post up pictures I would but alas I am not good with computers. (It might be an idea to have a thread that explains in VERY simple terms how to post pictures) My cousin and I have also finished a restoration to as new on a baby 100E boat they are both in Callander and we would be pleased to let anyone in need of a look pop in.

[Tatra Man]

Yes, that heat exchanger / header tank does seem rather over-engineered, doesn't it!

I hear what you say about cooling and I can understand how the Albatross marinised engines might be a bit marginal as they only have the two hull heat exchangers and a simple copper coil in the sump. Also, you wouldn't want a thermostat in an unpressurised system. However, 2003 has the twin hull heat exchangers, the Rootes water cooled sump and the additional heat exchanger in the header tank so it could be over-cooled, particularly when not hauling skiers. I think a thermostat is a wise starting point to help overcome any problem due to possibly over-cooled oil.

I have a picture of 2023 which appears to show a much shorter hull cooling pod. A bit of a puzzle that one.

The high failure rate of the Rootes engines is a puzzle as the same engine ran at an average of over 90mph for 24 hours in the 1961 24 Heures du Mans! Rootes beat Porsche to the "Index of Thermal Efficiency" that year and that basic engine went on to be produced in versions up to 130bhp and I got 186,000 miles out of one including decades of commuting, towing and rallying without a rebore or a crank grind. Is the thrust all taken by the "gearbox" or is any transferred to the crankshaft? Have you any idea what failed each time or, even better, do you still have any of the failed engines? It's got to be down to something to do with marine use and all I can think of is over-cooled oil, unregulated coolant temperature, SU carbs (used by Albatross on all but the first few) and engine angle - which is no different to a car climbing a hill. It's not as though boats do much in the way of running hours/mileage compared to cars either!!

[Alacrity]

It's got to be down to something to do with marine use and all I can think of is over-cooled oil, unregulated coolant temperature, SU carbs (used by Albatross on all but the first few) and engine angle - which is no different to a car climbing a hill. It's not as though boats do much in the way of running hours/mileage compared to cars either!!

Yup, oil turned very gloopy years ago if running cold - especially if not changed often enough. Modern oils are much better but still needs to be run hot as another very informative post on here points out. These days most of these boats will only run for a minutes at a time - 20 mins would be a long run for most of them so the problem is arguably worse today for some boats. Unless you are lucky enough to run in Ireland of Scotland you will never get it hot hot as it were. Another point, & I don't know if this applies here or not, is that modern oils have either reduced or no zinc in them I understand it & as a result camshaft failure on older yank iron is common if modern oils are used - & I know of at least one small block Chris Craft that has suffer this fate. So oils formulated for modern engines may not be the way forward, a friend of mine works with yank iron & is adamant modern engine oils mustn't be used unless specially formulated for older engines.

Running the water side cool will increase bore wear dramatically as well.

Prop thrust should all be taken on the thrust bearing in the modified timing cover - I am assuming the Rootes motors are 'back to front' as well (I know jack about Albatrosses!)? If not it should have a thrust block or the gearbox should take it, bad news if it's taken on the crank.

[Howstar]

Song for your boat,

Can you think of any orther songs for different makes of boat, I have gone off topic but life to short not to

[Tatra Man]

Prop thrust should all be taken on the thrust bearing in the modified timing cover - I am assuming the Rootes motors are 'back to front' as well (I know jack about Albatrosses!)? If not it should have a thrust block or the gearbox should take it, bad news if it's taken on the crank.

No; the Alpine Marine engine runs the right way round - it's the only Albatross which does and I gather that's why they're left-hand-drive - so the weight of the driver counteracts the engine torque. 2003 even has a hole in the rear seat back plate for a starting handle!!

There's a small alloy device like a miniature gearbox on the back of the bell housing with a knurled cap on top but, like other Albatrosses it's a direct drive boat. I haven't delved into it yet but I'm assuming it takes the prop thrust and transfers it to the bell housing and hence the engine block and then into the hull via the engine mounts. Is it such a thrust block and should it be oil filled or not and, if so, what grade of oil should I use?

[Good buy]

I think this is what you are after .
http://www.aaoil.co.uk/racing-HR-1

[scooter]

On the none gearbox installation which most boats were on the Sumbeam engined boats (engines faceing forward). At the back of the bellhousing there is a small oil resevoir with a dip stick which was filled with EP90 gear oil. This was to lub the thrust bearing fitted in the endplate/propshaft drive flange. These bearings took all the thrust as the input shaft to the flywheel had a bit of end float in it to stop any thrust getting to the crankshaft. Its important that the engine mounts are in good condition to stop the engine moveing forward and allowing the front of the prop boss to touch the back of the P Bracket (this is a common reason for the P Bracket to fail and damage to the hull) The P Bracket is not designed to take any forward thrust its job is to control any torque from the prop. Its paramount that that only perfect props and shafts are used as vibration can have wreck a hull very quickly. I was asked to look at one boat and the bottoms was a brittle as glass !!!!!

[Tatra Man]

That sounds exactly like what I've got and fits in with my understanding that the thrust bearing on the crankshaft centre main bearing was only designed to take clutch release pressure. I've now heard three recommendations as to how that "thrust box" should be lubricated though:- 90EP gear oil, 15W50 engine oil and also that it should be left with just residual oil in it, not filled to the dipstick mark. The latter sounds a bit extreme to me! All advice gratefully received by this novice!!

Thanks, too, for the warning about prop. flange to P-bracket clearance and the engine mounts. 2003 has the same twin horizontal V support to the "thrust box" as 2000, the prototype. I'm not sure it locates very positively vertically or torsionally but it should be very good laterally and longitudinally. By 2010, Albatross had changed to the later arch over the flange where the bell housing joins the engine which might not be so good longitudinally but would be good vertically, laterally and torsionally. Anyway, the front engine mounts on those engines are good at resisting torque.

I haven't fully examined the hull around the P-bracket yet but it is suspect as a previous owner has attempted to fibreglass it from the inside. The repair didn't bond well but it is watertight despite that so the hull appears intact. When I get the glass off I'll know what I'm facing and will check for work-hardening. 2003 has the longitudinal strengthening rails and I have some 4mm plate for reinforcement.

I can't keep calling her "2003". - Does anyone have any suggestions for a name? If she were a Moonfleet, then the obvious combination of Moonfleet and Sunbeam would be Moonbeam but I can't come up with anything appropriate from any combination of Albatross, Sunbeam and Alpine apart from Sunbird. I do rather like the idea of this air-brushed across the transom though:-

Is it allowable to give a boat the same name as the manufacturer's model name?

[Howstar]

What about below

Albipine.
Sunbeam,
sunalbitross
trata

Sunbeam i like the best